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Kommentar von 82808

A little simillar to paladin seals, maybe?

Kommentar von 51192

Hunter 51-point Marksmanship talent.

Kommentar von talinn

... burns 30% of the mana drained instantly returning 100% back to u.
to me that sounds like, if u cast max rank viper sting (drains 3000 mana), chimera shot will return 1000mana to u. shame chimera shot itself costs 540 mana..... net return about 440 mana...

sound this sound right?

if so, i don't think this will fix mana issues for MM hunters. especially where viper sting can't be used.
edit - forgot - u gotta add the cost of the viper sting also. seems pointless to me...

Kommentar von yjesus

Combined with Scorpid Sting, it can be quite useful in pvp. Shame that the DR is so high on it.

Kommentar von Huginn

If Chimera Shot is casted when Viper sting is about to end, would it still drain the target for + - 1k mana? By the description, I believe it does:

So you cast Viper Sting on target, wait for 7 seconds, then Chimera Shot would take another 1.2k mana (with talents) for a total of 4k+ mana drained in 8 seconds at lvl 80 ^^
AND you still get roughly 1.2k mana back! How can you possibly complain about that? :P

Kommentar von talinn

the 2 shots cost u 1150 mana, and u'll get back 1200 mana....?
sure its a good mana drain, but really - it does nothing to help with our mana situation. still gotta rely on AotV as our (MM) only source of mana regen.
BM & SV get a new passive mana regen + AotV

Kommentar von Archdmon

Very weak and pointless in its current form.

Kommentar von yjesus

Talinn, u forgot about Imp. Steady Shot, 40% mana reduction on next Aimed/Steady/Kill shot + 15% dmg, the effect has only 15% procs so it doesnt affect so much, but it is another mana effiecent for MM hunters.

Kommentar von 35640

There's also pet skills that return mana to us, and Careful Aim made Intellect a more useful stat so we will have more max mp.

Kommentar von 176639

The usefulness of this talent is currently debatable. The damage it deals is fairly insignificant, the cost is fairly high, and the cooldown is fairly long (when compared to Arcane shot). The various abilities would all be great if you could catch them a moment before the Druid cleanses them, but you can't reliably do that in PvP.

As for the individual effects:

Serpent Sting - Burst damage is nice, and hopefully it will ignore all armor and resistances. I don't see that happening, though. Unfortunately, Serpent Sting isn't the most useful ability in PvP.

Viper Sting - I'm assuming the 100% drain is of the 30% instant mana damage and not what the whole sting would drain. If it's the whole 3092 mana, it's pretty ridiculous. With mana drains currently being the most successful Hunter tactic in arena, this could be big if you get it before the sting is removed.

Scorpid Sting - This would be much better if it didn't "wind down" so to speak. If all three attacks are identical, you've prevented 1.2 attacks overall. If this works on raid bosses, it might redeem the talent for PvE. I'm not impressed enough with it otherwise to justify taking it for PvE, though.

Kommentar von 64287

Another thought why Chimera Shot is an absolute waste in the first beta build of WotLK (from a PvP point of view, this is MM after all):

We all know that Chimera Shot needs to be fired before the final tick of the sting. In the case of Viper Sting, the last tick is the 4th one and it drains 773 mana (not including res. effects). The mana drained per tick with 5/5 Improved Stings is 1005 mana.

Chimera shot burns 30% of 3 ticks (2311 mana x 30%) which is 693 mana. With Improved Stings the amount rises to 905 mana.

Now let's see the comparison between the mana drained if the hunter leaves the sting to tick 4 times or fires a Chimera Shot:

Mana drained by: --------------------------- Viper Sting4th tick --------------------------- Chimera Shot ------
Without 5/5 in Improved Stings: -------------------- 773 ---------------------------------------------- 693 ----------------
With 5/5 in Improved Stings: ----------------------- 1005 ---------------------------------------------- 905 ----------------

Just in case you don't believe to numbers, here's the deal: for maximum effect of Chimera Shot the hunter should fire it right before the last tick of Viper Sting. So 3 ticks drain 75% of the total mana drained by Viper Sting. Chimera Shot drains 30% of those 75% which is 22,5% of the full Viper Sting effect. The 4th last tick of the sting drains for 25%. Do the math now, 25% > 22,5%.

So.. all of you who think Chimera Shot "rocks", please, think again. The only benefit you can get is damage equal to 30% of your weapon's at the cost of 540 mana.

Edit:

It's 30% of total mana drain possibly, 0.3*3092.

Let's assume it is. This won't change things much since Chimera shot will add only 5% of the total amount of mana drained: Chimera Shot is set to 30%, the last tick of Viper Sting - 25%.

Translated in numbers: Chimera shot burns 928 mana, the Viper Sting tick - 773. With 5/5 in Improved Stings the values are: Chimera Shot - 1206, Viper Sting tick - 1005 mana. (The values will be a bit better in favor of Chimera Shot the higher res. the enemy has, but still its impact will not be significant).

In other words, Chimera Shot costs 540 mana to the hunter and effectively burns 155 (201 talented) mana and does 30% weapon damage.

Kommentar von 176639

spellweaver, are you deliberately being an ignorant tool

2ofdiamonds, are you deliberately trolling?

This talent currently doesn't do enough in arena to change much of anything. Hunters can really only do one thing passingly in arena right now - play control. We can't really dps (and the changes to pets are unlikely to change that), and we certainly can't heal. That leaves us to rely on our crowd control abilities (yes, including Scatter and Silencing Shot) and our mana drain (i.e. Viper Sting).

Here's why Chimera Shot doesn't help enough:

The burst damage from Chimera-ing a Serpent Sting is only going to be occasionally useful, as you often can't waste 2 GCD's on a burst attack. The mana efficiency is downright horrible on this, with the damage being 4% AP + 484 damage at level 80. There's little reason to use a Chimera Shot instead of an Arcane Shot unless Arcane is on cooldown. If you need to burst and already had an uncleansed poison and Arcane is on cooldown and you can afford to put Chimera shot on cooldown for ten seconds, it is somewhat useful. That's a lot of "and"s, though.

Chimera-ing a Viper as soon as you put it on is a remarkably poor idea. Even talented, Viper Sting often drains you more (proportionally, because of our small mana pools) than the target if they cleanse it right away. If your opponent lets you stay on the drain target long enough to both get a few ticks and fire off a Chimera Shot, they deserve what they get. If the Warrior or Rogue decides to stun or disarm you (Dismantle appears to work on ranged weapons as well), the Viper Sting is gonna be gone by the time you can do anything again. And that's assuming you don't have to do the pole dance and hope you can catch them before they clear the Sting. The mana regeneration is nice, but all it does is make sure you don't lose more mana than the drain target, not really giving any huge buff to mana efficiency.

Scorpid Sting is great to Chimera as a reactionary move, but that requires you to have already had the sting up. By the time the first GCD is done, the situation may have changed so that Chimera shot is not going to prevent the attack that needed preventing. Any warrior that's still awake is going to make sure that this talent prevents mostly Hamstring and autoattack damage. It ends up being a weak ~3 second control ability against the classes that we have the most trouble with in arena. Also, there's no way that this is normally going to work against a raid boss. Reducing the effect of 3 attacks from a raid boss is a little much when it's only on a 10 second cooldown.

The 30% weapon damage is more or less meaningless. Unless the effect from the sting is useful, it's not like people are going to use it just as another instant attack. How many arena matches have you won because you fired several Silencing Shots just for the DPS?

If you have numbers to back up why Chimera Shot is awesome, I'd like to see them. SpellWeaver is backing up his position with numbers; you are trolling, flaming, and getting defensively sarcastic.

Additionally, calling a MM Hunter's DPS "viable" is probably a bad idea. The changes to pets mean that BM hunters will get proportionally a lot more from their pets than MM or Surv will. The good Marks DPS talents are unlikely to be enough to overcome the BM tree. Even if you were merely stating that they have more DPS than a Pain Suppression Priest, you're ignoring the fact that Pain Suppression lasts a lot longer than a Scorpid-Chimera will. Forcing a BM Hunter to spec Marks is going to hurt the raid's DPS a lot more than forcing a Holy Priest to spec Discipline, as well.

Edit: This comment was made when Chimera Shot did only 30% weapon damage and consumed the sting rather than renewed it. While I'm still not entirely convinced that Marks will out-DPS BM, this ability is certainly much better. Also, at the time of this comment, the Scorpid Sting option prevented 60%, 40%, and 20% of the next three attacks (respectively) from the target rather than the current disarming version.

Kommentar von 161863

Horrible damage
Horrible mana cost
Only useful for consuming Scorpid Sting

Kommentar von 20396

This talent is going to receive some love.

The mana cost of new ranks is not just an issue for Hunters. We're looking at lowering the mana cost of all new ranks among all classes. We also intend to do some improvements to Aspect of the Viper. Not to mention mana return mechanics in each of the tree's (Invigoration, Rapid Recuperation, Hunting Party etc.)

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...&sid=2000#3 4

We'll be doing some improvements to Chimera Shot. We'll experiement with it refreshing the duration of the sting instead of consuming, and adding some base damage to the shot as well. It should act as an Arcane Shot replacement, doing significantly more damage (especially if serpent sting is on the target).

Regarding Serpent Sting, we'll bump the damage bonus you get from this effect up. We also want to make Serpent Sting more usable for Hunters.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...&sid=2000#1 4

Kommentar von 102520

Chimera shot has been "buffed" if you call it that, but rather it is more worth it than its previous effect.

Now costs 375 (down from 540) and deals 150% weapon damage (up from 30%).

Kommentar von Archdmon

I dont think this will completely replace Arcane Shot as they say, it will only be added to a new shot rotation for MM. With its latest buff it makes for quiet a deadly addition. Good work Blizz.

Kommentar von 102520

Chimera shot has been buffed (rightfully so).

It does 125% weapon damage, but now it refreshes the sting (rather than consuming it) on the current target which saves crucial mana.

The serpent sting effect is untouched.

The viper sting effect has been changed, rather than burning 30% of the targets mana and restoring 100% of it to you, it now restores 60% of total amount of mana drained.

Scorpid sting is the greatest of the three changes, rather than decreasing the targets damage by 60%, 40%, and finally 20%, it now gives a chance to disarm the target which adds utlity to scorpid sting in pvp.

For scorpid sting to chimera shot, you are looking at this type of rotation every other minute.

Bear trap/Freezing trap (10 seconds) > scorpid sting > right before trap breaks > chimera shot > disarm (10 seconds or 5 with talents) > scatter shot (3 seconds)

Leaving melee with about 7 seconds of 1 on 1 time with you. Do note that disarm can only happen once per minute, so there will be a rotation without disarm up.

If you wanted to get fancy, with the upcoming changes to disengage:

Bear trap > scorpid sting > chimera shot > disarm > disengage > scatter shot > conc shot

or whatever suits your play style

Kommentar von TranquilRage

Does the duration refresh also rest the counters on the "damage done" and "total amount drained" descriptions of Serpent and Viper stings?

Otherwise that is crazy scaling over the course of a fight.

Kommentar von skribs

Without serpent sting up, this is our best scaling shot. With serpent sting up, this is even better.

Aimed shot, while having a high base damage, actually scales slightly less than steady shot. If you take 100% weapon damage at a normalized 2.8 attack speed, 100 AP would result in 20 damage increase, or 20% of your AP goes to damage.
Steady shot, while being a 20% increase in DPS, until you hit 33.34% haste will also scale with haste. For an MM/SV hunter this is at least 15% (23% scaling with AP instead of 20%). For a BM hunter, this would further raise in scaling to 26.67%. I am simplifying the equation, but the point is you'll get slightly better scaling out of these.

Now look at Chimera shot: 125% weapon damage. That means you take the 20% you get from aimed shot (which is 100% weapon damage + some) and multiply it by 1.25 to get 25% scaling. If you have serpent sting up on the mob, this will do 40% of the damage from SS (which scales with 20% of your attack power, so 40% of that is 8%) meaning that Chimera shot will scale with 33% of your attack power, or 35.4% with imp stings.

While aimed shot will likely do more damage, for the cast time this will be an incredible amount of damage.

Kommentar von 191298

With the whole "renew your current shot" thing, does that mean you will get MORE mana back from viper sting if you keep renewing it? or will that not be considered the same sting and you will still only get the orignal 60% mana, no matter how many times you renew it.

Kommentar von 219089

Battle starts, Shoots Serp.
Start normal shoot rotation.
12s later, Chimera. 4 Ticks, so, 800 * 0.4 = 320 + 125% weapon damage, refreshs sting duration.
Back to normal shoot rotation.
12s later, Chimera, 4 more ticks (total 8), 1600 damage * 0.4 = 640 + 125% weapon damage, refreshs sting duration.
Back to normal shoot rotation.
12s later, Chimera, 4 more ticks (total 12), 2400 damage * 0.4 = 960 + 125% weapon damage, refreshs sting duration.

I really don't think that's how it works. The description is a little ambiguous, but I believe that the total amount of damaged caused by the serpent sting is reset with each chimera shot. Otherwise it would be ridiculous damage over time as you said.

Kommentar von 219089

Why does is say '16% of base mana' (1.6k mana if you have 10,000) but on https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents2.html it says 375 mana?

Kommentar von 30079

So will this ability also refresh the stings of other hunters? Or only your own?

Kommentar von 233879

This is a great shot good in pvp and arena and is good with https://www.wowhead.com/cata/spell=23989 and scatter shot. and will be likely to win in arena.

Kommentar von 228383

From what I have seen from going MM, I have 35% crit chance with steady shot unbuffed, as well as 2,4k AP. I thought that having those stats was enough, but then I got a 4905 crit on Hex lord and 4256 on Maggy the night before, This is a great shot for PvE as it makes your serpent sting only cost one installment of mana, and works forever, also add the sting glyph to give yourself an extra 3 seconds of time to use it.

Kommentar von 176126

Hy
In PVE what is better?
1 - put up serpent sting (with the glyph and 3/3 imp stings) for 18sec and shoot the chimera when the sting ends?
2 - just put a sting up (what u need, dps or mana) and shoot ur chimera to cd? if u choose that what u think, talent the imp stings?

Kommentar von 10128

You can keep Viper Sting debuff up continuously on an enemy by doing this :

00.0 Viper Sting Start
07.0 Refresh with CS

15.0 New Viper Sting
22.0 Refresh with CS

etc...

In PvE you should always keep Scorpid Sting up on difficult fights, except if a Balance Druid is doing that for you with Insect Swarm.

However, if the ennemy can be disarmed, then it is your duty to disarm them as much as you possibly can. Disarming a boss is extremely powerful at reducing damage.

Kommentar von 241456

Nice now hunters can disarm to :D

Kommentar von 216037

The wording is a little confusing to me. Does Chimera Shot do 40% of the total damage or SS, or 40% of the damage done up until the point where it hits?

Kommentar von 293700

hello

just tryed it yesterday with a friend

yes,IT DOES restore mana to you

with efficiency & improved sting totally talented,you spend about 1000mana to start with your mana restore (700 and some for chimera shot when you rotate it) and get back about 2500

so,1500 mana for the first tick,1800 for the next ticks each 10 seconds when you refresh it

great for hardly long bosses xD

Kommentar von 87957

Ok, I have been using this shot a lot... what, exactly, IS the shot in the shape of? I mean... it looks like SOMETHING, but I can't tell what it is since it moves so fast.

Kommentar von 222376

I have a theroy.
On a raid boss (lets say KT for instance) with mana (2200k mana), use viper sting if your low on mana, let it tick once for the 5% of 20% mana drain, then use Chimera shot, which is 60% of that drained, you would get 66k mana back in 2-3 seconds.
If this is possible, then in these kinds of fights would favor MM hunters greatly
*Edit*
Also, with Imp, Stings talent, you get 30% more mana from viper sting, thus leading to a final mana gain from KT of 165k.
Please someone tell me if this works, and i will be trying as well.

Kommentar von Monnezza

Althought it refreshes stings, when you're just dpssing a boss you may want to shoot a new Serpent Sting after popping CDs or getting occasional buffs from other raid members.

Re-applying SS while being buffed will result in a buffed SS that will then mantain this improvement as long as you keep refreshing it with Chimera Shot.

E.G.: while dpssing you notice your trinket just procced that extra 1000AP: you then sacrifice a Steady Shot from your rotation and re-apply Serpent Sting.
The new SS now does 300 extra damage from the bonus AP, and will keep doing so as long as you keep it refreshed with Chimera Shots, that will also benefit from that doing an extra 120 damage per shot!

Kommentar von 130268

the tooltip for chimera shot says "refreshing the serpent Sting on your target". so does that mean that at the very beginning of the skill rotation, u just have to pop a serpent sting and with right timing, just chimera shot when serpent sting is about to wear off and then it gets refreshed and it goes on and on? since serpent sting's effect wears off after 15 secs and chimera shot cd is 10 secs.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##

Kommentar von Nebell

Does Glyph of Serpent Sting (+6 seconds on SpS duration) boost SpS damage from Chimera Shot?
Seems logical to me that it would, since longer duration = more damage, but you never know with Blizzard so I'm asking anyway.

Edit:
Yes it does according to https://www.wowhead.com/cata/item=42912#comments

Kommentar von 98874

Worthy of Note: While not much, the serpent sting damage portion double dips in damage increasing effects, because it increases the damage of the sting itself, and then the % of the damage of the sting that it does. Figured this out after some pretty unexpectedly high Chimeras on Malygos.

Kommentar von Stigmata

This is the effect of using the serpent sting.

This is fired as a second, seperate shot, shortly after the actual Chimera Shot is fired.
It doesn't consume extra ammo.
It can crit.

Also, if you happen to hit aspect of the viper between the shots, the sting shot will do half damage.

Kommentar von 230590

im surprised this isnt in the comments yet but to clarify, chimera's base damage is nature (the weapon damage part) not just the bonus damage from serpent sting, ignoring armor, and benefiting from the 13% spell damage debuff... like explosive shot, so you dont need to worry about armor pen to make this ability shine (though MM itself benefit a lot from ArP)

so far is the hunter's hardest hitting ability, i have seen shots crit well over 12k in raids (combined shot and bonus from serpent), and definitely goes a long way in pvp with all the high armor classes running around(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##

Kommentar von 363040

I've noticed often that the scorpid sting effect does not work against survival hunters in arenas. They get the chimera shot disarm debuff, yet they can continue to attack me from range. The same cannot be said for marksman hunters who appear unable to attack from range. Has anyone else experienced this?

Kommentar von 501417

If part from Serpent Sting crits, it doesn't proc Piercing Shots.

Kommentar von eclavdra

I don't get it. Blizz nerfed Scourge Strike to it's current pitiful state, because it was considered too powerful(weapon damage as magic dmg), but Chimera shot is ok, when it's 125% weapon damage as magic+additional damage or disabling effect.

Kommentar von undyingvisage

o k so.......... refreshes your current sting... serpent sting in this situation. 10 minute long boss fight. 10 minutes of constant serpent sting. Chimera shot triggered effect - Serpent Sting - Instantly deals 40% of the damage done by your Serpent Sting. screwing around with target dummies for 5 minutes or so. i didnt notice the extra attack getting any stronger. or my DPS going any higher. does the triggered effect not take into account the full duration? or only a 15/21 second interval at a time? (depending on if you have glyph)

Kommentar von elitearthas

How much dmg does Chim do in Beta?

Seeing as KC has a 0.5 RAP multiplier and 40 focus cost, and Chim loses its '2nd hit' and only refreshes SS, KC might be the higher (if not highest) dps skill to use.

Kommentar von elitearthas

Chim might just be a 'SS refresher' and 'healing pot' @_@

Even our 'signature move', the AIMED shot is nerfed hard by the nerf of Careful Aim sigh

Kommentar von elitearthas

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2023-4.0.1-Changes-Raid-Testing-Videos-Class-Balance-Hotfixes-Blue-Posts

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/27187856197/class-balance-amp-hotfixes-10-18/

"We have pushed a hotfix to improve hunter damage.

Specifically, we increased the damage of the signature abilities (Chimera Shot, Explosive Shot and Kill Command) by 15-25%. This will both improve overall damage-dealing and make sure that these abilities are prioritized higher than other shots. We think this will bring hunters to a good enough state until they hit 85. Aspect of the Fox and Cobra Shot solve some specific issues at higher levels. Marksman hunters may still trump Survival and Beastmaster hunters until they’re 85, since their rotations rely a little on Cobra Shot. "

mmm is 1 dmg (comparing beta's lv80 vs live's) 15-25%? rofl

anyway... it was dead visible how weak they were for signature abilities... at least they did realise this during beta lol

Kommentar von loik

Now Chimera shot causes 100% weapon damage plus 48.8% RAP plus 1000 <-(modified by RAP).

Kommentar von 670067

When it says ranged weapon damage in the tooltip, does that mean maximum weapon damage or average weapon damage?

A bit confusing seeing as Aimed Shot does 100% weapon damage and this does "ranged weapon damage".

Anyone care to shed some light on this?

Kommentar von ouinonyes

Chimera Shot should also deal the amount of DoT of Serpent Sting that is lost when it is refreshed!
Coz i mean, I do fire Chimera Shot at every chance, and that mean about 1/2 the duration of Serpent Sting is lost with its DoT as well.
...anyone agree?
I mean as Aimed Shot's damage is going down to 160% I think, we need compensation in our signature shot!

Kommentar von guatafu

The healing can crit.

Kommentar von 585305

RIP Scorpid disarm.

... Well, RIP secondary shot effect based on sting as a whole, actually, but I really miss the technical usage of the disarm in particular.

Kommentar von 860414

I figured out a three shot macro that will work maybe 90% of the time. You can NOT use it one elite only non-elite mobs. You start with Aimed Shot then you use Chimera Shot and you finish it with Kill shot. The target must no attack you or be attacking someone else, be sure to kill a mob b4 using so you have the perk increasing damage.

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Schimärenschuss

Schimärenschuss	Stufe 85

Talent

50 Fokus	40 Meter Reichweite

Spontanzauber	10 sek. Abklingzeit

Ein sofortiger Schuss, der Distanzwaffenschaden als Naturschaden plus (Ranged attack power * 0.732 + 1620) verursacht und die Dauer Eures auf das Ziel wirkenden Effekts von 'Schlangengift' auffrischt. Zudem werdet Ihr um 5% Eurer gesamten Gesundheit geheilt.

Zauberdetails

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n/a

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Natur

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n/a

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n/a

GCD-Kategorie

Normal

Kosten

50 Fokus

Reichweite

40 Meter (Long)

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Sofort

Abklingzeit

10 sekunden

GCD

1 sekunde

Effekt #1

Script Effect
Wert: 1
PVP-Multiplikator: 1

Effekt #2

Normalized Weapon Damage
Wert: 1
PVP-Multiplikator: 1

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Benötigt eine Fernkampfwaffe
Kann nicht verwendet werden, während Ihr gestaltverwandelt seid
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Kampftimer nicht zurücksetzen
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Nicht im Zauberbuch bis erlernt

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