Oh come on Baine I'm getting sick of your attitude.You barely said anything when Sylvanas burn down Teldrassil and killing countless innocents and now are whining about raising one mind-screwed zombie for a clean assassination?Really Baine? I'm really tired of this gripe about Honor when it's all bark, no bite, and silly like this.
saurfang is just... so boring...
Let's list all of the morally grey acts Sylvanas has committed:- Experiments on civilians beneath Undercity.- Abominations. Let's not forget what those are made from. - Slaughtered the people of Southshore (civilians/farmers included) and raised them as undead.- Slaughtered the refugees of Southshore and raised them all as undead. - Seeks to reblight Western Plaguelands. - Kills the remnants of the Dalaran mages in and around Silverpine.- Massacres the Gilnean people and blights their city. - Tortures Koltira because he showed mercy.- Defied her Warchief's orders (remember that when we talk about Saurfang later)- The Horde are 'arrows in her quiver'- Made a bargain with the queen of the underworld. - Sought to enslave Eyir into making more val'kyr. - Immediately orders the weaponization of Azerite. - Attacks the Night Elves, killing every man, woman and child along the way. - Seeks to 'kill hope'. - Burns Teldrassil, with all of the thousands of innocents inside. - Blights the Alliance at Lordaeron, killing her own troops in the process, then raising both as undead. - Spits on Saurfang's honour when he questions his Warchief. (Remember how Sylvanas did the same in cata?)- Blights the Undercity. - Orders the massacre of civilians in Stormsong. Specifically civilians. (I suggest doing that quest line in Stormsong and having a good look around. You can see children crying over the impaled bodies of their parents that have been stuck to the walls, or murdered in the middle of a picnic. You also find a rare Forsaken in the basement toying with trapped civilians, saying "I've missed this". - Orders the retrieval of Derek Proudmoore's body, knowing he was a hero to the Kul Tirans, so that she can torture him into losing his will and serving her as a slave, and killing his family in their sleep. This is just me listing everything I can remember off the top of my head. I have likely missed many other morally grey acts. However, I think Blizzard is doing a really good job at the whole Game of Thrones inspired Morally Grey characters. It is clear to me that there is no 'good and bad' when it comes to Sylvanas and Anduin. They're both as good and as bad as each other. Let's list all of Anduin's morally grey acts now:- He thinks draenei females are hot.
To everyone complaining that Sylvanas is acting like Garrosh. You are are completely wrong. There isn’t going to a SoO 2.0. Since when did Garrosh raise anyone from the dead? Clearly we are going to have an ICC 2.0!Dranosh = DerekYeah but in all seriousness. They are just taking everything that they’ve done creatively in the past and putting it together in one big pot to make the character of Sylvanas. You can see the parts that make her a mirror image of Arthas/Lich King, Garrosh and even Sargeras. Very creatively bankrupt to see such a tortured and unique character fall prey to the devices that helped create her. Sylvanas has always been (to me at least) the type of person that didn’t mind getting her hands dirty but only if it gave a direct link to winning. You leave her alone but once in a while kindly check up on her and she’ll be on her merry way. The whole problem with why she is acting this way since the start of Legion (with flecks of it showing in Cata and MoP) is this odd idea that exists a need to repopulate the forsaken just because they can’t procreate. I just don’t see the reason why that idea is so prevalent especially amongst the self-aware undead. They know that living a life of undeath is suffering and they know their time won’t last forever, so why bring others into such an existence of suffering? It makes no sense. They should be gracefully waning into undeath with their numbers never replenishing except immediate and dire circumstances only within battle. Outside of that their numbers should be going down.It’s that reason which has turned me off from playing forsaken. However ironically playing a DK main in Legion, I would say that the ebon blade and the new lich king have the right approach when it comes to utilization of necromancy. We raise people that would become key instruments in a war that would threaten all life. And then when done, we wait not rezzing anyone else just so that they don’t share in such an existence of suffering.I just don’t understand how she came about to think like this. And I am fully expecting an additional warbringer or cinematic to explain her jump in logic from keeping the forsaken safe by being friendly with those that are least hostile (aka Horde) to the only way to be safe is make everyone a forsaken. It’s too extreme and likely will be explained away by corruption. Plus as I said will only serve to make her a melting pot of ideas from Sargeras, Lich King/Arthas/Ner’zhul, and Garrosh. And not her own character.
Honor doesnt win wars. Just makes you feel better about losing.
Why do they make a warchief die every expansion?
The horde is showing its true colors, they were always warmongers. Shed those silly ideas of human honor that thrall infected you with.
Keep calm, you know, Sylvanas has an army of fanboys and boo... a charisma, so every her atrocity will be redeemed just because she exists. Every other character would become a loot pinata for something similar.
Who would stand against LK 2.0?The greedy af Gallywix?The trolls that are currently under the flag of the warchief?The Blood-boiled Lor'themar?Even the Nightbornes stand it to see such attrocities be done by the Horde side against those that helped them find their freedom too aka the Alliance.Baine and Taurens in general always had that nice sense of Honor which is now lost among the Horde.The bad thing in the whole situation is that even Baine still stands only in words,even though i believe that he will be the first to stand at Saurfangs side when he ask for help in the revolution that is to come.
The Horde outside of Sylvanas is continuing to let this happen? What the hell kind of blackmail does Sylvanas have to continue to force the Horde to do her bidding?
Wow, would you look at that. A dude that doesn't become fanatically loyal to Sylvanas the second he is raised.I don't know what to make of this. This flies in the face of the typical Blizz / fanboy logic of "lol u go crazee when u ded, so makes sense to wannna kill ur friends lol". I am confused!
I guess I will throw in my 2 cents:The problem with the Horde right now is that Sylvanas is the best choice of very few options.Saurfang is a traitor. Straight up, he has multiple times refused a direct order to execute a high ranking leader of the enemy. Now he is being pardoned by the leader of the Alliance and allowed to walk free. I can't stand him or his brooding about honor when in reality all it would get him is dead. Baine is pretty late to the party here. He went along with Syl all this way but the raising of a single alliance hero and his mistreatment is too far? This is war. They are the alliance and the enemy. Garrosh was removed for moving against the Horde itself. Am I supposed to sympathize with someone who is objecting to mistreatment of the enemy? Gallywix seems fine with everything. He is a cool guy and I like his style. Down to earth and pragmatic. The Belf leader seems to only care if it affects his people. It doesn't and so far Syl is doing nothing that is outside of their comfort zone. So if the options for warchief right now are Saurfang, Baine and Syl I will stay with Syl. She is a survivor in a very grimdark world. Saurfang has already nearly attempted suicide once and Baine seems to have no long term plan at all except whatever he deems honorable or not. Of the bad choices Sylvanas is the best.I really don't think that the blizzard writers intended for this. I think it's clear Syl is supposed to be the bad guy and Saurfang the good guy. However they did not really think that Horde players, who have been against the alliance for 14+ years, would not embrace the orc who is blessed by the young alliance king with flowing blonde hair.